PMR run out of gas

[fdarellag]

hi
my PMR is shooting .. shooting.. but suddenly it likes run out of gas..
so i stop shooting.. and give it like 3 or 4 seconds
and them i can shoot again.. but after few shoots it runs out again.. than i have to give it time again..
what can it be?

[mmend002]

You need to continue your original post not make a new one.

[fdarellag]

but is not the same problem.. i think now is the hyper2
its commin to much air from the back after each shot

[Hawk]

make sure that the bolt "foot" or pyramid is down when inserting the bolt. if it is not over the air feed hole, then this is how it can react. The foot is part of the boost forward design and must receive the incoming air directly.

[fdarellag]

i dont got it what u mean by the foot
do u think i got take the bolt out and but it back?


after shooting is commin to much air and sometimes it stays open and air come from the back cap
ok.. this is done..
now.. the next problem.. hehehe

it gives 1 or 2 shots and them it doenst have more pressure

[newartist]

i dont got it what u mean by the foot
do u think i got take the bolt out and but it back?


after shooting is commin to much air and sometimes it stays open and air come from the back cap


Hi fdarellag,

Do you have a chrono? It sounds like you may have the regualtor and/or possibly dwell set too low. Follow the manual for setting dwell and then set the regulator to shoot over 260/FPS but under 300/FPS.

HTH

[fdarellag]

ok..
now that massive air is out.. no more..
but now i have a small leak.. tht sounds commin from the middle of the marker
it fires.. but with the small leak

[newartist]

make sure that the bolt "foot" or pyramid is down when inserting the bolt. if it is not over the air feed hole, then this is how it can react. The foot is part of the boost forward design and must receive the incoming air directly.


Hi Hawk,

Do you think it could be the bottle pin adjustment or bottle not fully seating and not feeding the H2 reg enough air fast enough?

On a different note, was there some sort of change in the manifold or body design that could allow the foot to be out of alignment with the air feed hole in the body? My PMR cannot be assembled in a way that allows misalignment between the manifold foot and body air inlet hole. The manifold is one piece and always in alignment if at the rear of the manifold the long and short set screws that retain the bolt cap are assembled correctly. Just wondering as I've had mine all apart several times playing with it to see how it operates and cannot assemble it incorrectly.

Also, are all of the O-rings used in the PMR nitrile (Buna N),? Has anyone tried Viton O-rings in this application? Viton is a superior material in several important ways but of course it costs more but when you are talking 100% more of .10 ro .20 (10-20 cents), this is not a lot of money.

Cheers

[Hawk]

ok..
now that massive air is out.. no more..
but now i have a small leak.. tht sounds commin from the middle of the marker
it fires.. but with the small leak
That sounds like the small tophat o-ring needs to be replaced.

[Hawk]

Hi Hawk,

Do you think it could be the bottle pin adjustment or bottle not fully seating and not feeding the H2 reg enough air fast enough?
That is entirely possible. Something they should look at.

My PMR cannot be assembled in a way that allows misalignment between the manifold foot and body air inlet hole. The manifold is one piece and always in alignment if at the rear of the manifold the long and short set screws that retain the bolt cap are assembled correctly. Just wondering as I've had mine all apart several times playing with it to see how it operates and cannot assemble it incorrectly.
Mine does not automatically line up. All my set screws for the back cap are flush and the cap moves freely on its own.

Also, are all of the O-rings used in the PMR nitrile (Buna N),? Has anyone tried Viton O-rings in this application? Viton is a superior material in several important ways but of course it costs more but when you are talking 100% more of .10 ro .20 (10-20 cents), this is not a lot of money.

Cheers
I haven't heard of Viton o-rings. If you have access to them, I would say do a before and after review of the o-rings. Take lots of pics and/or video if you can, and we will post it here.

[fdarellag]

ok..
i changed 3 orings right now..
the tophat, 1 in the bolt sail and 1 the backcap...
the small leaks keep going..
and like it worked in the pm6.. i give a shot.. trying to close the leak with the shot..
but when it shots.. it makes a big bang..
and one of the orings inside the bolt leaves.. (the #5 in the manifold it's a BN 14)
this is getting me crazy..
and we got a big game on saturday

[Hawk]

Big bang and an o-ring dislodging from it's spot indicate the pressure is too high from the inline reg.

[fdarellag]

well
i putted the oring again
closed all pressure
and them started shooting and opening the reg..
after few turns, it starts leaking..
than i close a little
and shot
it stop leaking
but it doesnt look like to strong.. and the leak sounds from the middle

[Hawk]

Initially when starting from a closed reg, there is a point where the air pressure is not strong enough to seal, and will leak. What you need to do is set it over a chronograph and when you get to the speed you want, it should not be leaking.

[fdarellag]

this is getting me crazy..
i opened now all reg.. the oring didnt bang.. but the leak stayed..
it sounds from the middle of the gun

[Scott-Dyetech]

Hawk,

The viton o-ring material is a harder density we used them in our a/c 3-way's they don't flex as much. I don't think they would work well for all the applications on a dm marker though. They would work in the on/off though.

For the thread starter, Try Adjusting the setscrew pin in the asa so it would activate the pin on the tank a little more, if you are still having this problem.
When you say leaking from the middle do you mean from the trigger area?
Have you pulled out the solenoid ever?

Don't have the reg adjusted all the way out. Screw the adj. all the way in then back it out 3 turns.

[fdarellag]

the pin on the asa is another problem apart that for sure would make easyer..
like 2 or 3 weeks ago.. when i went to the field.. i started.. the vedation on the other side started broking.. then i got my friend tank(low) and tryied.. it worked for the day... when i got home i fixed the vedation..
and during the week, when the trigger arrived, my problems started..
i had leaks everywhere already.. i have other posts talking about them..
on/off is arriving next week.. but i need it working for saturday..
this week i realized that the vedation was brokin because of to much air commin out.. so i made the pin come a little out.. to no press to much in the tank.. so not to much air... but enought..
after that.. i already used like 400 balls.. 1loader in around like 20 seconds.. and it worked well.. but i thought to strong.. then i started trying to regulate the marker.. and those leaks came back again..

now.. this is the situation:

i got the regulator half screwed, i dont have to much air in the tank, and the leaks sound from the middle of gun... maybe upside the noid.. i can't feel the air no where.. it just sounds

ussually how much time the battery keeps alive?

[newartist]

That is entirely possible. Something they should look at.

Mine does not automatically line up. All my set screws for the back cap are flush and the cap moves freely on its own.

I haven't heard of Viton o-rings. If you have access to them, I would say do a before and after review of the o-rings. Take lots of pics and/or video if you can, and we will post it here.


Hi Mr. Hawk,

I see in the OP's later posts I think he said that he was messing with the Airport pin on a borrowed air tank. I can't really understand the posts that well but it seems like he should do the basic setup and reset his board all to default settings. Maybe I misread these posts but it seems like the OP is totally confused about the way the PRM needs to be setup.

Ah, I likely have a later production PMR, mine is only a month old. There are four set screws used to retain the can/bolt/manifold assembly back cap and on my marker there is one that is just a little bit longer than the other three! The first time I disassembled the bolt assembly I noticed this deviation from the PMR 07 maint. sticky and just figured that it was an assembly error made on the PMR used in the tutorial. In my PMR there is a grove cut or cast into the bottom of the body and the one slightly longer set screw protrudes into this channel and guides the bolt/manifold assembly as it is inserted into the body. You can not insert the assembly misaligned if you leave the longer set screw protruding a few threads. I also figure that there is no need to cinch the back cap retaining screws down any more than is necessary to retain the back cap and positioning the set screw heads well below the manifold holes as they are captive once the bolt/manifold assembly in inserted. This allows the cap to roatate very freely, not make any scrathces in the body bore and yet still retain the back cap.

Viton is very popular O-ring material with different properties that I think would be slightly advantageous in a marker. The down-side as I mentioned is that they cost about double for the same sized O-ring. The common Viton O-rings have a very slightly higher durometer at 75 vs 70 for common Buna-N O-rings. I'm going to order some and try them out in my marker.

Isn't that funny? I'm a professional photographer but have no way to do video. They don't really cost much so if you have an interest in trying them out for yourself shoot me a PM and once I get them I'll mail a couple of sets to you. Who knows maybe they will reduce manifold/bolt assembly service frequency.

HTH

[newartist]

the pin on the asa is another problem apart that for sure would make easyer..
like 2 or 3 weeks ago.. when i went to the field.. i started.. the vedation on the other side started broking.. then i got my friend tank(low) and tryied.. it worked for the day... when i got home i fixed the vedation..
and during the week, when the trigger arrived, my problems started..
i had leaks everywhere already.. i have other posts talking about them..
on/off is arriving next week.. but i need it working for saturday..
this week i realized that the vedation was brokin because of to much air commin out.. so i made the pin come a little out.. to no press to much in the tank.. so not to much air... but enought..
after that.. i already used like 400 balls.. 1loader in around like 20 seconds.. and it worked well.. but i thought to strong.. then i started trying to regulate the marker.. and those leaks came back again..

now.. this is the situation:

i got the regulator half screwed, i dont have to much air in the tank, and the leaks sound from the middle of gun... maybe upside the noid.. i can't feel the air no where.. it just sounds

ussually how much time the battery keeps alive?



Hi fdarellag,

I'm having a hard time with what you are posting, your posts are difficult to understand or me at least. Can you help me out? What is "vedation?" Can you better describe what you mean by this?

What is the "trigger" you are talking about? Is this just the UL style PMR replacement trigger for the stock frame or are you talking about the UL frame replacement kit with new board and trigger?

fdarellag I think you need to set your PMR board settings to the factory defaults and get your PMR back to a known state. Then you need to change the battery to be certain that it is not causing some part or all (though I very much doubt this), of the problems you are experiencing. Next take out the macroline on the Airport's outlet and follow the instructions for setting the Airport pin depth. This is VERY important in your situation because your PMR seems to exibit problems related to too low pressure, too low volume and too high a pressure all at the same time! You problems are all over the map and this means that you may have more than one problem with your PMR. Carefully set the Airports pin depth per the manual and all will be good here. Once you have setup the pin depth in the Airport use ONLY this bottle for the rest of your testing to ensure that the issue stays resolved properly! Reinstall the macroline on the Airport outlet.

Next make certain that you have assembled the manifold/bolt assembly correctly and that there is adequate (but not too much), lube on all of the bolt O-rings (these are dynamic parts with moving O-rings), and that the rear cap retaining set screws are screwed in far enough to retain the back cap but still allow the back cap to rotate freely. Also, note that the manifold foot needs to be oriented downward at about the 5:30 position and that the bottom back cap retaining set screw on the manifold should protrude very slightly to ensure that the manifold foot is positioned correctly over the air inlet hole located in the body's bore which is about mid-bore when the manifold/bolt assembly is inserted back into the body. Double check your work!

Once you have done these things do as Scott-Dyetech said, screw in the Hyper2 regulator all the way and then back it out 3 turns. Now gas-up and turn on your PMR and turn off the eyes (on a stock board you need to see a blinking red LED). At this point see if the PMR will fire or not, listen for air leaks and carefully follow the PMR manual's instructions for setting dwell with a chrono. At this point if you have not missed any O-rings and have assembled the manifold/bolt assembly per my notes you should have a working marker assuming that you don't have a missing or broken part in there someplace. If not you have most likely made some sort of assembly or adjustment error.

Good luck, I hope this helps you some, and keep us posted!


Cheers!

[fdarellag]

i know this thread is to confuse right now..

the gun have just one leak..

it sounds from the middle of the body

in the manuel says to take the noid out and lub the seat.. i did and it still leaking from the same place.. already traded the 3 #20 and the #15 of the sail

[fdarellag]

i quit..

grrrrrrrrrrrr i cant send to a pro-shop because they dont have PMRs here already

[newartist]

i quit..

grrrrrrrrrrrr i cant send to a pro-shop because they dont have PMRs here already



Hi fdarellag,

Where are you? I'm in South Pasadena California and Dye is about 2 hours from here. If you are near by bring it over and I'll help you resolve the problem. Failing that you may have a tough time making the week-end games.

Cheers

[fdarellag]

oh well
im all way down america..
im from brazil
hehe
i was doing interchange in Ct when i bought the marker
i already know that for this weekend.. the marker is not going to be working..
in the beggin of the week the on/off is arriving.. i hope i could do something more.. but i doubt..
i need the repair kit that i cant find anywhere.. just sent an email to proto asking for those kits..

[newartist]

oh well
im all way down america..
im from brazil
hehe
i was doing interchange in Ct when i bought the marker
i already know that for this weekend.. the marker is not going to be working..
in the beggin of the week the on/off is arriving.. i hope i could do something more.. but i doubt..
i need the repair kit that i cant find anywhere.. just sent an email to proto asking for those kits..


Hi fdarellag,

Ah, Brazil you are a little bit too far to come over and have me mess with your PMR. Bummer about not having the PMR for the weekend though, I know what it is like to have a neat new toy sitting, unable to be used. :cry:

One of my friends is from Brazil, she's fun and a crazy woman IMO. I just took my sons and a couple of their friends paintballing, one was the Brazilian lady's daughter!

Can't you just source all of the O-rings you need locally from a paintball shop you go to? They are common parts from what I can see based on the material (Nitril), sizes needed (common standard US sizes), and durometer (70), so it would seem that a good paintball shop would have them sitting in a little plastic box on a shelf over their workbench.

Good luck!

Cheers

[fdarellag]

hi..
ok.. now saturday is gone.. the guys from another city lend me an old angel they werent usin.. and a bob long..
but now.. i got go back to my PMR
my On/Off is arriving this commin week..
and when i receive it.. im gonna start messing with the pmr again..
other thing.. i would like to get permission to start a new thread to no keep the mess with this one.. this one already have someone spoking about a type of orings.. the trouble already walked in every place of the gun..
can we start everything again? or i just can use this thread?
thank you for the attention..
felipe

[Macky]

I have tried the Viton orings and found no benefit over Buna-N

[newartist]

I have tried the Viton orings and found no benefit over Buna-N


Hi Macky,

What marker did you try them in? Where did you try them in the marker? In other applications (non paintball uses), I've found that Viton O-rings are slightly more durable, leak less and resist going flat much better than Nitrile O-rings did. This is especially true in areas with exposure to solvents and grease and the Viton O-rings stayed flexible longer and wore slower.

The Viton material is not quite as flexible as Nitrile but this should not be a problem except where the mating surfaces are not well finished. But this is not the case with any of the Dye markers where O-rings are used. Unless you changed O-rings routinely (which is not a bad thing), where there are no obvious reasons such as any visible scuff marks, flat spots, tears or other wear or damage you never had the opportunity to find out what potential improvements in durability or resistance to flat spoting Viton O-rings had to offer.

Can you help all of us out by telling us about your experience with Viton O-rings. Maybe some of us would see an advantage where you did not. I have a couple of full sets of Viton O-rings for my PMR to try out but have not bothered to pull out the new set of Nitrile O-rings I just installed in my PMR. I had a slight bolt leak caused by some scuffing on an O-ring. I don't think it's a problem but I was hoping to avoid having to repeat O-ring service again in only 3-4 cases of paint.

TIA